Posted by Lee W. on January 01, 1999 at 23:15:01:
In Reply to: Re: Wu principles posted by bruce ching on January 01, 1999 at 20:11:06:
Bruce,
Happy New Year...and let me try to approach these subjects a bit...
In regards to the Wu lean, what I have seen emphasizes a dynamic movement or tilting of the kua as you go through the step from Gong Bu on one side to the other. The end points tend to stress the alignment of the spine through to the rear leg. The pelvis then becomes a passthrough and NOT the point of alignment as it would be with Yang style. It also tends to allow you to let the pelvis align with the back leg as well. This would of course produce a forward appearance on the torso. So to answer the first question, the spine is straight and aligned with the leg but not necessarily the pelvis.
One of the finer points that I am not clear on is exactly how the pelvis plays in here. I have seen it done with the pelvis tilted to align with the back leg and therefore the spine. In this posture, the pelvis is not tucked inward. I have also seen it done with the pelvis tucked in a bit but not so much as to put stress in the low back. Which way is correct I am not sure since both sources were quite good and this was not one of the areas I was focusing on at the time. Clarification from some highly skilled Wu stylist would be greatly appreciated here.
The question about the spirit in the photograph is the next and possibly easiest one to tackle.
In the pictures I am referring to FZW is in Ban Ma Bu (half horse stance) doing Roll back. His attention is forward through the lead hand and there is a MAJOR intensity in his eyes The lead hand is shoulder level to a little higher. Fu Shengyuan has a picture in the same posture. His stance is shifted much more to the rear foot giving it a weaker and less martial appearance. The attention is not a clearly through the lead hand and the lead hand on FSY is lower than the shoulder. The overall impression is much less martial and not as spirited. This is one photo. The entire book is similar. The form is correct but lacks the same fire that FZW displayed even in his later years.
In both FZW and FSY's pictures, the posture is "correct" but there is a certain "Something" in FZW's that is more martial and "spirited"
The comparison of FZW's picture and his sons would be like the comparison of a crisply tailored and well pressed suit versus the same suit after it has been worn and getten a bit wrinkled. (well maybe that was not as easy as I thought it would be :) )
As to why the difference between FZW and his son, I think it has more to do with the times than anything else. Fu Shengyuan was born in 1931. By the time he was 20 (1951), he had lived through Japan's occupation of China, the attempt of Chiang Kaishek to set up the Nationalist government, the war between Chiang Kaishek and Mao Tsetung, the setting up of the New China communist government... Quite a lot to grow up through. This might very seriously impede the ability of a father to train a son to the level he wishes. Following 1950 you have the Great Leap forward, a lot of hard times and then in 1966 (FSY would have been 35) you have the beginning of the Cultural Revolution. Familys got moved around, people have lives and jobs. I would say that the difference is probably somewhere in this tumult. Another part is very probably not unlike a lot of us with our fathers. FZW may have indeed pointed out these things and FSY may have (as I have with my own father) thought that he was doing what he was being taught...but not really.
: Hello, Lee,
: : Fu Zhongwen was quite emphatic about the spine being straight and aligned with the pelvis.
: The problem with the description of “spine being straight” is that it doesn’t settle the question of whether the spine should be vertical, does it? “Aligned with the pelvis” I take to mean sinking into the front kua, but again this doesn’t settle the question of verticality.
: : The amount of lean varies from person to person but it is still nowhere like the lean in Wu style.
: So are you saying that keeping the spine straight and aligned with the pelvis defines a range of forward lean, and that the spine in Wu style is either not straight or not aligned w/ the pelvis? (I did read your description elsewhere in this thread, and liked it, but would appreciate clarification on this particular point. My exposure to Wu style was very brief.)
: : FZW's son has done a nice book on Yang style but a look at his photos vs. his fahter and then looking at YCF, it is plain that he is not in the same league as his father. In his book on Yang style (which is basically a translation of his fahter's book with Fu Shengyuan doing the pictures) there is a photo of FZW doing Roll back. In the form pictures, there is a picture of Fu Shengyuan doing the same move. He does not come close to the structure or the spirit of his father.
: If FZW placed great emphasis on the angle of the back, it seems odd that he would not have made his son aware of that emphasis, so I’m not sure of what to make of the differences in the forward lean of FZW and FSY.
: Also, I’m not sure of what what you mean about spirit being revealed in photographs; could you explain?
: : When FZW was asked about how to perform the postures in 85 posture Yang style, he would refer to YCF's pictures and say to look like that. FZW strove his whole life to faithfully reproduce YCF's form from what he learned from him directly. Having seen Ycf's complete pictures of the routine, YZD's, and FZW's, I have felt that FZW was closer by far to YCF, even though YZD physically resembles his father. A lot of people will only look at the resemblance instead of the structure.
: Considering the length of time that FZW spent with YCF, it’s very likely that FZW’s teachings should be regarded as authoritative. My question re. the forward lean of FZW’s son is, if it’s not in line w/ FZW’s teaching, then where would he have gotten it? Wouldn’t FZW have corrected something to which he attached such great importance?
: Any light you can shed on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
: - bruce ching